Vice President Kamala Harris accepted the Democratic nomination for president after a historic week at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which focused on messages of freedom, optimism, and unity. On this episode of the GZERO World Podcast, former Congresswoman Donna Edwards and presidential historian Douglas Brinkley join host Ian Bremmer to share their insights on a truly unprecedented DNC and history-making month in US political history.
Vice President Kamala Harris accepted the Democratic nomination for president after a historic week at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which focused on messages of freedom, optimism, and unity. On this episode of the GZERO World Podcast, former Congresswoman Donna Edwards and presidential historian Douglas Brinkley join host Ian Bremmer to share their insights on a truly unprecedented DNC and history-making month in US political history. Harris pitched herself as a pragmatic leader who could unite all Americans behind a “new way forward,” but how successful was she in making her case for a Harris-Walz ticket? From powerful speeches on the convention floor to a dance party roll call, the four-day event showcased the talent, diversity, and optimism within the Party. As the dust settles, the challenge for Harris will be maintaining that enthusiasm all the way to Election Day. With the latest polls showing the presidential race is neck and neck between the two parties, the biggest question will be whether the DNC won over a crucial demographic: the undecided voter.
Host: Ian Bremmer
Guests: Donna Edwards, Douglas Brinkley
Ian Bremmer:
Hello, and welcome to the GZERO World Podcast. This is where you can find extended interviews with guests from my show on public television. I'm Ian Bremmer, and this week all eyes were on Kamala Harris, Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Her party now has its nominee, and just as importantly, Democrats have a reason to hope again. After staring down the brink of an all-but ensured defeat against Donald Trump, as recently as late July, the tables have turned faster than a brisk Lake Michigan wind. Right now, it's looking like a very tight race.
Today I'm talking about the historic nomination of the first woman of color to the top of a presidential ticket and the road ahead for her. Joining me from the DNC in Chicago are former Congresswoman Donna Edwards, the first Black woman to represent Maryland, and Presidential Historian Douglas Brinkley. That sounds like the makings of a heck of a conversation, so let's get right to it.
Donna Edwards, Douglas Brinkley, welcome to GZERO World.
Donna Edwards:
Thank you.
Douglas Brinkley:
Thank you.
Ian Bremmer:
And, Douglas, I want to start with you, as the presidential historian and to place this Democratic National Convention, what's already been a pretty dramatic and different 2024 year, in broader historical context.
Douglas Brinkley:
I think it's extremely important because if you just cut to March and April, the Democrats were worried that they were doomed. They thought they had Joe Biden as their nominee. He was having about a 36% approval rating. Other presidents that are one-termers, like Jimmy Carter losing in 1980, he was about 36%. Or George Herbert Walker Bush in 1992, sitting president, lost with about 36%. So there was concern in the Democratic Party, and then the debate happened where Joe Biden just wasn't there that day. Obviously, Donald Trump cleaned his clock. From that moment on, there was the jitters.
In the end, by getting Biden to do the right thing and to do something that's quite unusual, giving up power, handing it over to Kamala Harris. There created this new energy in the Democratic Party, and that is what one feels in Chicago throughout the convention. The United arena is just bringing everybody together. Even if you're a lifelong Republican and you're in the building, they're trying to create a big tent. And so far, Harris has done this remarkable job of not making many gaffs, and working her tail off, picking the right person to be her VP, Governor Walz of Minnesota. And so, the energy level is very high. It's still a neck-to-neck presidential race, but at least there's this feeling of momentum among Democrats.
Ian Bremmer:
Donna, talk about how you've felt in the United Center so far. Surprises? Things that once we knew Biden was stepping down and Harris was going to be the nominee. How is it different from what you might have thought or anticipated over the last few weeks?
Donna Edwards:
Well, I think the energy level has really been over-the-top. For Democrats, the questions is whether they're going to be able to sustain this and, I think, as we've heard really throughout the convention, all of the speakers have really pointed to Kamala Harris' leadership, her experience, and the energy that the Harris-Walz ticket really brings to Democrats who had been, quite frankly, a little down in the tooth a bit as the election season as worn on. And I think that what you can feel in the spirit…
I think this word “joy” is really an important one because it is true that Americans are just exhausted of the chaos and the disruption over the last several years. And this campaign is bringing not just the energy, but the joy, and you can really feel it in that convention hall.
Ian Bremmer:
You said the Democrats felt down in the tooth, of course, in part because they were a little long in the tooth when it came to Joe Biden and just how old he was, and how well he could potentially stand up for another four years. He did not leave easily. He did not leave voluntarily until the very last moment.
Donna, he's there. He gave a speech at the beginning. Has that been mostly forgotten? Is everyone now together? Can we close the chapter on that? Is that what this joy is?
Donna Edwards:
Well, look, I think that, on reflection, looking at Joe Biden and the way that he really did come to terms with his own presidency and the ending, he actually ended with a lot of grace. He did such a solid favor, I think, to his Vice President Kamala Harris by endorsing her right away. And I think that the unity really began with that hand-off and that transition. And even as the convention has gone on for several days, people are still, Democrats are still referencing the grace, and the dignity, and the leadership of Joe Biden. And I think it really spoke to his comments at the opening of the convention, where he quoted a song. He said that he gave his best. I think that Democrats are feeling that. It makes it easy to go from that place, where there was a lot of dissension, into unity.
Ian Bremmer:
Now, Douglas, you heard Donna say enormous energy and momentum, if they can keep it. We're still a few months away. How much impact do conventions typically have in an election and what are the reasons why this might or might not be different?
Douglas Brinkley:
Well, conventions really matter. Especially since 1932, when Franklin D. Roosevelt came to Chicago, and that's when he gave his famous New Deal speech. Ever since then, these conventions have become media extravaganza. That's because travel was easier by the '30s. You had opportunity to take a car, airplane, train. And so, these conventions would gather people. There are big moments. You think of John F. Kennedy, the youngest president ever elected, in Los Angeles, unleashing the whole New Frontier motif of his campaign. One can go on and on. So, you, know, they matter.
But the big one for a spike, if that's what you're asking?
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah.
Douglas Brinkley:
Bill Clinton, in 1992. He killed it. The numbers of Clinton went from okay to just off the Richter scale. He ran on that right to election day because he had some problems dealing with extramarital affairs potentially. He had some problems, did he smoke marijuana? Is he too young? He was just this Governor. Then, boom, when he spoke in '92, game over really for George Herbert Walker Bush.
So, they really can matter. This election is going to be close. We all know it's down to six, seven states. And so, every vote counts. I think the Democrats this year in Chicago have done a great job of opening up the tent of what the Democratic Party is. They're allowing in people. It started at the right note at the beginning of the convention when I saw Jesse Jackson being brought in in a wheelchair remember the bravery of Jackson in 1984 and '88, running for president and having delegates.
Then there was a moment people harken back to Shirley Chisholm and what it meant when she ran in 1972, a pioneer. And then we ended up with Geraldine Ferraro as vice president for Mondale and Fannie Lou Hamer in 1964 in Atlantic City. You know, the Mississippi Freedom Party Democrats.
So, a lot of the history kind of came together and then it brought in Republicans, too. And then you have such great ... In Milwaukee, Donald Trump, the drama was the badge and the wound he suffered from the assassination attempt. In Chicago, I think the story's been speaker, after speaker hitting home runs. I mean, listening to Michelle Obama and Hilary Clinton, two former First Ladies and Hilary Clinton, of course, Secretary of State also. But it was just stunning, and the amount of talent the DNC's been able to present on the stage.
Ian Bremmer:
And they're all together. Also, a big historic moment here. And you've made a fair amount of history, Donna. You're the first Black woman to represent Maryland in America's Congress. We now see the first woman of color being nominated for the presidency from either party.
There have been a lot of criticism, right? A lot of people inside the Democratic Party saying, "Oh, Vice President Harris is a drag on the ticket. She wouldn't win. We wouldn't elect a Black woman." That certainly has gone away in Chicago over the last few days. Talk about the history and what it means for you to be in this room.
Donna Edwards:
Well, Ian, I haven't heard any of that talk in Chicago, that is for sure. I think that Kamala Harris has actually done a rather masterful job of building on her experience as a former prosecutor, as a United States Senator, as Vice President, as she began to really blossom in this role as the nominee for the Democratic Party. And you can see one speaker after another, throughout the convention, pointing to her history, to the breadth of Democratic tent.
I think one of the things that's really impressed me that builds on that history, and Douglas spoke to this, is bringing in the voices of all of the men and women on whose shoulders Kamala Harris stands. Shirley Chisholm and Fannie Lou Hamer, and Hilary Clinton doing that masterful hand-off that she made at the convention to Kamala Harris.
It feels great. I have to say, as a Black woman, as a woman of color, it's very inspiring because we keep saying every year that Black women are the base of the Democratic Party. The strongest vote that they can possibly give. And here you have this Black woman of Indian descent who is at her pinnacle, and you can see it flourish throughout the convention. And what's been amazing to me is that you have Democrats who are showing both the history that we have, from Bill Clinton and Barack Obama speaking, and Joe Biden, and then the future. So many governors who are present at the convention. Democrats have a lot of history and a great bench that Kamala Harris can build on.
Ian Bremmer:
It's also a big tent, right? You've got the Hilary Clintons, you've got Barack Obama. You also have AOC and Bernie Sanders. Now they're all coming together in supporting Kamala Harris. They certainly don't come together on a whole bunch of policy issues.
Now so far, Harris has, I would say, leaned into the vibes, the leadership, the continuity, and hasn't spent as much time on the policy. Is that a winning strategy? Can she maintain it? Should she maintain it? I'll turn to you on that first, Donna.
Donna Edwards:
Well, I think the question is what do the American people want? I mean, I think what Kamala Harris is demonstrating is that people want to have confidence in their leaders, that they're going to make the right decision. That they're not going to create chaos and invent catastrophe. And I think that Kamala Harris is really building on that.
And really, she talks about the accomplishments that she and Joe Biden have had in a very successful presidency that she wants to build on. From expanding healthcare and prescription drug affordability, and child care, and support for families and for children. And I think those are all issues that really unite the broad swathe of the Democratic Party. And frankly, bring in a lot of Republicans and Independents who also want childcare affordability and healthcare.
So I think that she's on the right track here. And there's what, two-and-a-half months left? She's going to have a chance to expand on her policy. I mean, she's done that in an economic speech that she's already given. I think that there will be more opportunities for that as we go on. But the real point here is to pull people together in a sense that the country is more united than it is divided.
Ian Bremmer:
Douglas?
Douglas Brinkley:
You know, I think the real power brokers in the Democratic Party are Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama. In different ways but they are the ones that are really looking at this as, "How do we win?" I thought President Obama used to say to a lot of his aides, "You don't have to tell them I'm the first Black nominee, they're going to notice that. They're going to know that. I've got to tell them what it is I'm going to do for them."
And you're going to see Kamala Harris, the convention, everybody else is going to mention this, talk about it. But out of there, she doesn't need to. We know that she would be the historic first female President of the United States. We know about her Indo and Black heritage. What we want to know is, "How are you going to help me?" And so, the more they can stay on an economic message and answer those questions, it's important.
Then it is the big tent, but I notice some issues that faded. Climate change was such a big talking point for Democrats, and it seems to have faded from the convention. Now, Bernie Sanders evoked it in a powerful way. But they're starting to trim it down to that economic message, how we'll make life better for you.
A potential pitfall for Kamala Harris is how do you talk about Gaza? In Chicago, when people were thinking this is 1968, it is not. The city's beautiful, there are people in outdoor cafes. There's harmony in the convention. And yes, there are protests, but they're in a kind of sequestered area. They're expressing their ideas. There have been a few arrests. Nevertheless, that issue is a tinderbox one because things change in the Middle East daily, and Vice President Harris has to be careful how she talks about that particular issue. And then, the energy versus an environment issue, because something like her once opposition of fracking in Pennsylvania has caused her some problems. I'm glad she doesn't want to frack in Pennsylvania, personally. But it comes at a cost when you're dealing with communities that are making money on natural gas.
Ian Bremmer:
Well, she's also in an administration that presently is presiding on the biggest oil and gas production the US has ever had. So, it's hard for her to do that.
Another thing that I've noticed, Douglas, that has faded from view is the, "Democracy is in peril if you don't vote for me." This was of course a very big, and I would say priority focus of Biden over the past months. It has not been what most of the convention speeches have been about. Do you think that is an intentioned and appropriate tilt? Is it a winning tilt, in your view?
Douglas Brinkley:
Well, I find that it's a much better approach to go. In politics, you sell optimism. The optimism is your oxygen. You want to look at presidents that have been successful like Theodore Roosevelt, or FDR, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Regan. People that are enshrined in our national memory, they all were selling optimism. "We can be better. The future is coming."
I always felt it was a mistake that Biden was basically running on, "If you don't elect me, you're getting the other guy, Donald Trump. That's your choice." Well, that doesn't kids excited to put Biden signs on the lawn, or to go bumper sticking, or door-to-door.
Immediately, Kamala Harris has taken on other words, like “freedom,” and “reclaiming freedom.” Ritchie Haven is a great folk musician from the '60s. He was at Woodstock, used to play, "Just say the word freedom," and it carries this power. It reminds us that we have to fight for our freedoms. It reminds us of the Freedom Movement of the '60s. It reminds us of FDR's Four Freedoms during World War II. Freedom from fear, and freedom from religious persecution, and the rest. And so rolling into the world “freedom” is what I feel they're doing here.
I actually got to speak to Bill and Hilary Clinton. I said, "What's the word here?" It's freedom. They're trying to take that back from the Republicans who, just like the GOPs co-opted, "I'm wearing the American flag. We're representing freedom." The Democrats are saying, "We're the freedom party. And you have to fight to have those freedoms."
I think also, the reproductive rights of women, what happened with Roe v. Wade, there was no way Joe Biden in his 80s talks about women's health issues well. Nor does Donald Trump. Nor does really any man in his 80s talk about that issue. We're clumsy, as men talking about ... Kamala Harris talks about it, and Michelle Obama at the convention talked about it in a way that gives you shivers about women's right to choose. And so, I think on that issue, which is a hot one because of what the Supreme Court did, Kamala Harris is the ideal messenger.
Ian Bremmer:
And thank you for owning and identifying with that male clumsiness, Douglas. I see it in the interview.
Donna, I want to ask here. I want to be the person that says, "Yes, you know, we can. Yes, optimism is the way we should play an election." And yet, most Americans think the country is heading in the wrong direction. It's not just the United States, most elections around the world have been anti-incumbency elections. How dangerous is it to simply lean into the continuity, "This has been a great four years, we're going to keep it going?"
Donna Edwards:
Well, I think that Kamala Harris has displayed her deftness at both identifying and empathizing with where people are. You know, the struggles that they feel when they go to the grocery store or the gas station or paying for their students' tuition. But I think that she also recognizes that Americans want to look forward. I mean, I think that's why you get the message of both freedom that's all encompassing. Freedom that covers everything from reproductive rights to the rule-of-law. I think Kamala Harris is leaning into that. And this notion that we're going forward, not backward.
I think people really respond to the idea that we're looking ahead. We're looking ahead to make our children's lives better than our own. And when she says that, then it is putting the past to bed. And it may be that, in this election year, people want to lean into that. Putting the past to bed and moving forward. I think Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, with his exuberance, both really speak to that.
And look, at the end of the day, we all know that this is going to be a really close election, which is why I think you heard speaker after speaker doing a call-to-action saying, "It's not enough just for us to feel good." Michelle Obama said this. "Go out and do the work, and make the phone calls, and don't wait to be asked, because everybody has to turn out." Which is why I think this convention was both looking inward at the Democratic base and energizing the Democratic base, but also looking outward and bringing in Republicans and Independents to the convention, which is pretty much unheard of, except in this convention. And I think in that sense, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are trying to say, "We have a much bigger tent, and if we unite, we can then begin to solve the big problems that are facing us."
Ian Bremmer:
So, Douglas, let me ask you. Coming out of this, what are you most worried about? What do you think the biggest vulnerability is for a campaign that now has a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of energy, a lot of momentum, but it is, we all agree, a very close race. We have over two months still left before people are going to the ballot box. What do you say?
Douglas Brinkley:
I think, first, see what balance is out of the convention. How many people are watching. I really agree with what was just said. I think some of this convention is going to bring Independents to the Democratic Party, and some Republicans. Barack Obama gave a masterclass, like a grassroots organizer, on how to bring people in. He wasn't shaming anybody. He said, "Come on in. We have more in common. Let's go back to some older values in America that our grandparents may have had."
Then, the problem's going to be the debate, and that's going to be Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump. Who knows what's going to happen? I think Kamala Harris, as a prosecutor, and the way that I saw her when she drilled Kavanaugh when he was up for the Supreme Court, she can be intimidating. She's good. Look what she did with Biden-
Ian Bremmer:
Biden.
Douglas Brinkley:
Yeah, when they ran for president. When she said, "I'm that little girl," a famous signature moment for Kamala Harris.
Ian Bremmer:
Which Jill didn't really appreciate for quite some time. They had difficult relations, Jill Biden and Kamala, as a consequence to that.
Douglas Brinkley:
Absolutely, because she went for it, right? She did it. That was a knockout punchline. She's formidable. Donald Trump is erratic, but that creates hard to know what... There's nothing off-limits with him. So you're not sure what he might go in with without fact-checking with Trump. You're suddenly having to answer something that's not true and it's easy to get confused. So, I think that's the next big point. Then we'll see how the VP debate goes. See if there's another debate. It's all about money, donors, fundraising.
What I think the Democrats have going for them is an enthusiasm, and they got to hold onto it. There's some people in the Democratic Party that will say, "Lose the sugar high. Get real now." I say I wouldn't lose the sugar high. Race with as much adrenaline as you can to that finish line because it's going to be neck-to-neck.
While it didn't get the media coverage, but there was a rumor that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. may back Donald Trump. Does that matter? Does he have a transferable 3% that if he says, "I'm for Trump," that goes over to Trump? That would concern me a little bit on a state that there's a one- or two-point difference. That's another thing I think Harris campaign has to keep their eyes on. What does that mean if he gets out of the race and endorses Trump?
Ian Bremmer:
I'm glad you raised that. It certainly seems like he's going to drop, RFK, that's my perspective. And from the call that he had with Trump a few weeks ago, his conversation with the former president certainly made it sound like he would be endorsing Trump in that scenario. Though, we're talking about a much smaller support base than we were looking at, even several weeks ago.
Donna, what worries you the most in the next few months?
Donna Edwards:
Well, I do get concerned as we're moving into this part of the campaign season that it's going to be about debates and day-to-day. What worries me is that, for Democrats, I think it is important to maintain that enthusiasm. On an election day, where depending on where you are, you could have rain, snow, sleet, and hail, that it's going to be important to have voters who are enthusiastic about going to the polls. Who, no matter what, are going to stand in lines, even if those lines are long. Who are going to cast those ballots, those early ballots that need to be counted.
And Democrats actually have a lot to build on because that enthusiasm has transformed into money. There have been record amounts of money raised by Kamala Harris since she got into the race. The question is how is that going to be deployed? Is it going to be deployed on the ground where it can make the most difference? Or just on the airwaves? I think that that kind of strategy is going to be really important, as we get to the end.
One of the things that's actually been quite impressive that is different about the Harris campaign versus the Biden campaign is that the Harris campaign is responding in real time, every single time that Donald Trump does or says something outrageous, to check him. I suspect that that's going to happen in the debates. But I agree with Douglas, that Donald Trump is so erratic and unpredictable, and that he will say outrageous things. And I think Kamala Harris has to be in a position to fact-check him in real time, and not depend on the debate moderators to do that.
And for Donald Trump, I think the danger is that he continues to say things about Harris, whether it's about her looks, or her personality, or her laugh, or all of these personal qualities that I think are incredibly offensive. And If he doesn't change that track, then I think he's going to lose even more Independent and Republican voters.
Ian Bremmer:
Donna Edwards, Douglas Brinkley, thanks so much for joining today on GZERO.
Douglas Brinkley:
Thank you.
Donna Edwards:
Thank you.
Ian Bremmer:
That's it for today's edition of the GZERO World Podcast. Do you like what you heard? Of course you would. Why not make it official? Why don't you rate and review GZERO World five stars? Only five stars, otherwise don't do it. On Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell your friends.